Disruptions With Purpose

On The Ancient Act Of Giving Birth With Lizzie Bolliger

September 14, 2021 Lizzie Bolliger Season 1 Episode 15
Disruptions With Purpose
On The Ancient Act Of Giving Birth With Lizzie Bolliger
Show Notes Transcript

In this conversation, we speak with fierce birth advocate, unmedicated birth expert and doula Lizzie Bolliger.   We talk about creating a disruption around giving birth unmedicated in a system that pushes and almost expects births to be medicated. We talk about bringing ourselves back home to the ancient act of giving birth. 

We talk about how our purpose in life is something that is in constant motion and changing and evolving all the time. That the experiences we are having today are going to serve us in the future in the ways we may never know. 

In the end we talk about how being a busy mother providing for the needs of our families and doing work in the world that lights us up is possible.  

This is a beautiful, light hearted, open and honest conversation with a fierce woman who cares deeply about women being able to have a fulfilling birthing experience and is an example to many mothers that being an entrepreneur and a mother is possible and fulfilling. 

A true disruption.

In this episode, we talk about:

and how powerful a tool it is during our birthing process 

Trusting Your Body to do the one task that biologically most women are tasked with doing which is to give birth

Fear and the role it plays in so many medicated births

Physiological birth which are powered by the innate human capacity of the woman and fetus. 

Purpose and how our purpose is constantly evolving and shifting and its not something that will be the same indefinitely

About Lizzie:

Lizzie Bolliger is a doula and childbirth educator who empowers expecting moms to have their best pregnancy, birth, and postpartum with a balance of mom intuition, evidenced based practices, and knowing what is physiologically normal.

When she’s not advocating for birth you can find her making Nespressos, exercising in her living room, homeschooling, or hanging out on Instagram (@fiercelizzie)

Ami: Hi, Lizzie, thank you so much for joining me today.

Lizzie: I'm so excited to be here. I'm a talker, so this is totally up my alley.

Ami: That's so great. I am also a talker, which is why I love doing a podcast. I was wondering if we could start by telling me, where you are situated right now?

Lizzie: Physically or geographically?

Ami: Whatever the first thing that came to your mind when I asked that question.

Lizzie: Well, because we were talking about this before we started recording as I'm sitting in my closet, the perfect recording studio for the mom that works at home and I am located in California, specifically the Bay Area of California. We're just a little bit east of San Francisco.

Ami: Okay, awesome, thank you. And so, in getting ready for this conversation, I kind of gave you a little rundown of what this podcast is all about. I'm curious, like what would you describe to be, how would you describe the word disruption? What's the disruption to you?

Lizzie: You know what's so funny, and maybe this is the former classroom teacher in me, but a disruption when you first say it, the first thing I'm thinking of is like a child that's not following the rules, which is, you know, it's too bad that we tend to treat children that way because then when you think of adults that are disrupters, they're really making waves and making changes, and it's usually for the better, you know? And so I try to remember that as a parent, too, because I do have a disruptive child that it's like, okay, this is a great personality trait, and we can cultivate it for good. You what I mean, instead of being told no, sit down. Don't speak unless spoken to, it's this way because I said so, and I think that just crushes that spirit. And I think that's why we have so few adults that are disruptors because as children, we were trained that way.

Ami: Yeah, we were told no, so much. I love what you said to at the very beginning that disruption is a child that's not following the rules. And I mean, that's kind of exactly what my hope is for this conversation and just for this podcast, in general, is like, who are the adults that are not following the rules because they're the ones I want to be having the conversations with?

Lizzie: Absolutely. I kind of like that too about myself, and I would have never labelled myself a disruptor until I spoke to you, and I kind of really started thinking about it and I was like, I kind of am going against the rules here, and I like it, you know, and I think that there's a purpose to that.

Ami: What is it that you like so much about it?

Lizzie: Well, I guess for me, so in my field, I'm a birth worker, right? And so when you think of women, we're very often not heard, specifically in our maternal care. In the U.S., I'm not super familiar with other countries outside of the U.S., but it is like we're children and we're told what to do. Sometimes it's like, Oh, well, you're pregnant, we're going to do this and we're going to do this and we're going to do this and. I am kind of helping moms, too well, hold on, wait a minute, let's really dig deeper and using their voice to get what they want in their pregnancy and their childbirth experience. And I've just gotten great feedback from moms like I didn't know that I could speak out or I didn't know that I had options. And so, it feels really good to me to be able to just give moms that knowledge and the option to disrupt if they want to, you know?

Ami: Yeah, it's interesting because I think that, you know, if we were to really get down to, I think a lot of people could relate with not wanting to always follow the rules around wanting to live life the way that they want to live life. I think it's sometimes our what's the word? It's like, I'm sorry, I don't even know what the word is. Sometimes the disruption is bad. It's just like what we put on the term disruption that we get uncomfortable with it a little bit. 

Lizzie: That's a negative connotation.

Ami: Thank you, that's it. Negative connotation.

Lizzie: I really think it goes back to children being labelled as disruptive. You think of like some parenting terms like, you know, if you have instead of saying my stubborn child, you say my strong-willed, I'm sure if we thought about it, we could think of a different word that has a more positive connotation that really means the same thing is being disruptive, you know?

Ami: Well, I think I want to ask you, so you're a birth doula, you're a birth worker, I was wondering if you could tell us what is that exactly like? What does that mean that you are a birth worker?

Lizzie: That is a really good question. And I sometimes forget because I am in the birth world, I forget that if you're not in the birth world, these are not as common. It's not common knowledge. So a doula is not medically trained at all. A doula is a support person and so a doula would support the mother, the parents that are pregnant. And it can be, you know, prenatal support, it could be birth support so that doula actually goes with mom or is with mom and dad, the parents at birth assisting there and even postpartum support. And there's actually like a ton of different doulas like we also have death doulas that help families process the death process and emotions and support with that. So a doula in terms of like a birth doula is not medically trained as I said. So it's on a different level than like the midwife, the obstetrician, they are providing emotional support, informational support and physical support to the parents from pregnancy through postpartum. The 

Ami: Yeah. I had a doula for my second baby and it was a magical experience like I was so glad she was there because my husband, bless him, was so great and he just didn't have a clue. Sometimes I was like, if she wasn't there looking in the eyes, I don't know what I would have done. You know, I was so grateful for that. Having that extra person there that was focused on me, like, I feel like the midwife is focus really on the baby. And I was like, hello, I'm having my own experience over here, this is like, I feel like there's a lot of things happening right now and I need somebody on me. 

Lizzie: They just know so much about birth that your partner is still a huge supporter of you, but a doula can help your partner better support you in labour and so doulas are just so valuable. The 

Ami: And so what is it that you are so committed to disrupting in our current medical system? Like, why is it so you call yourself a fierce birth doula? Like, what is it that you are so committed to changing in our medical system?

Lizzie: Yes. So, it's kind of like evolved as I started. Like, oh, I want to be a doula, I want to help moms, and it's kind of evolved into more of this, you know, now I'm really an advocate for birth, and it's just the more I learn, the more I get angry about how unsupported moms are. Specifically, my niche is mom's having hospital births that want to go unmedicated because, well, because that was me, and I just feel like they're so undersupported. Like, I feel like there's a lot of support for the moms that want to go unmedicated outside of the hospital and then when you're in the hospital, there's a lot of support for that, you know, standard, again, I'm talking in the U.S. hospital birth that follows kind of like, Oh, you know, you get there, you get an epidural, you get Pitocin and the more I researched the hospital procedures because again, myself and my experiences going into the hospital, I didn't want any of those things I wanted. I really ultimately wanted a home birth, but we couldn't afford it or insurance wouldn't cover it, so we would have to pay out of pocket. And we live in a really expensive area, so home birth prices, it depends on the cost of living in your area. And I was just like, there's no way I can justify spending that money when I know I can have an unmedicated birth in the hospital.

Lizzie: And I really started researching, okay, how can I more successfully have an unmedicated birth? And well, what are these things that the hospital is doing? And the hospital is not set up for physiological birth and we've really normalized this idea of birth that is so far from what our bodies are made to do. That it's completely foreign to a lot of women that we can just give birth with nothing, you could leave a woman alone in her closet like I am now, and she could give birth with no help and have no complications. And so the more I learned about that and the more I learned about the cascade of interventions and how the hospital is actually causing a lot of these problems that women fear happening in birth or being caused by going into that medicalised model. So it makes me really angry that it's like that and that's really fueled me to speak upon it. And the more I speak up and the more stories I hear from women I just can't like, shut up about it now. Like, you could never get me to stop talking about this. I feel like.

Ami: And what you're really talking about is how to educate and prepare women to become ready, to be able to advocate for themselves while they go into a hospital to have an unmedicated birth?

Lizzie: Correct. So, what I really focus on right now is preparing women to know like, okay, this is what's happening in the hospital, and these are the risks and benefits of the things that your provider may or may not want to do. And of course, you know, every provider is different. There are hospital providers that do prioritize the physiological process, but there is a lot that doesn't, also. So, just educating women on these are the risks and benefits, these are some alternatives. Yes, you can ask for something different. Here's how physiological birth actually works and here's how you can support that even when you're in that medicalised model. 

Ami: Sorry. Sorry, Lizzie, go ahead. I didn't mean to cut you off there.

Lizzie: Really just going over like, how to advocate because I mean, like we kind of touched on earlier, a lot of women feel like, you know, their provider is the end-all, be-all, they have to do what the provider says because the provider is the expert and they have to be good patients and just follow along. And I'm really trying to break that and just let women know that it's ultimately their choice, whatever they want,

Ami: And that they don't have to follow the rules.

Lizzie: Don't have to follow the rule, the rules, it's not allowed and it's baloney, you know, like you're not in timeout, say you're not. It really does remind me of childhood and being put in time out and the rules, like you're saying, and it's just mind-boggling. How many grown smart, critical thinking, intelligent women think that someone can tell them what to do?

Ami: Well, I'm really hearing what you're committed to, is teaching women to come home to themselves. Teaching women that their bodies are a wise ancient, capable being that has the capacity to do this one sacred thing. That almost like we've kind of we've separated ourselves from the sacredness of what we're here like, really, biologically speaking, this is why we're here, this is like one task. You know, we are here to do this, you know, and it's like a reminder that we can do it.

Lizzie: Absolutely, and we've just I mean, our society and Hollywood and what we see and the awful birth stories we hear have pulled us so far away from that, that seems absurd to some women. That it is our innate power, it is what we're here for, our bodies can totally do it on their own. And that goes, I mean, as far as you know, also into breastfeeding and also into caring for your newborn, we've become so disconnected from our intuition for several reasons that when our intuition is yelling at us, we don't hear it. So I also try to really get women to trust and sometimes women will come to me and tell me stories like, well, I just I don't know someone saying, you know, my parade is saying this thing and I just, and I say, that is your intuition talking to you. If you feel that pull, that's your body speaking to you. Let's like, slow down and really listen to it because we have definitely stopped hearing and being connected with our bodies.

Ami: Lizzie, I love what you're saying so much. I mean, the listeners of the podcast will know how often I talk about intuition and how it's so quiet, and it speaks to us through a whisper and logic. OBGYNs is much louder, it's much louder and it's very easy to put the intuition aside and to put it away. And then we come out of these bursts on the other end saying, like, I like why that didn't feel right, this wasn't the birth I envisioned for myself, this is what I didn't want it to be. I say that with knowing that like, sometimes shit goes down and you do need to have interventions, you know, I had to have that. I had an emergency C-section, maybe would not be here right now, but thank God for the medical system and then I had one on the completely opposite end where I went for a VBAC and very successful hospital VBAC. I had this beautiful, amazing experience where I fully was able to trust my body and listen to the whole entire thing. And, you know, intuition really played a big, big piece in both of those two experiences for myself. So I mean, I don't remember what I was saying right there, but just that this idea of intuition and bringing people back to that, I think, is just such a common thing that we're missing a lot of the time.

Lizzie: I couldn't agree more with that.

Ami: So I'm curious for me, like, what does the role that fear plays in all of this, like in the conversation that we talk around unmedicated births and like, just like, I don't know, I have a suspicion that fear is probably something that you talk about a lot with people and that a lot of times we have a medicated birth is probably because fear is rearing its ugly head. The 

Lizzie: Absolutely. It's like it's a combination of fear and not trusting in your body. And I just think that is society's fault that you watch a movie and it's like, oh, I'm going, I'm having the baby right now. You know, you're in the grocery store and it's an emergency, and it's scary. And if you really think of the hospital birth, I mean, women were meant to birth at home. And when you think of the hospital? What do you think of when you pull up to a hospital, there's an ambulance, there's an emergency room, it's a medical process, it's scary. You need help if you're at the hospital and birth is just that's just not the case for birth, but because we're in that hospital, it kind of feels that way even if you do trust in your body. You're in a hospital, you have a hospital gown on, you are a quote-unquote, patient. If you look up the definition of patient, it says something along the lines of someone who is going to receive medical treatment and you really don't need medical treatment for childbirth. But we're now a patient, we now have a hospital gown on, we now have an IV in our arm and it's just what are you telling your brain in your body at that point that you're not safe, that you're in a hospital, that you need saving? And you know, that's what's portrayed and perpetuated in the movies from horrible birth stories that you hear from your friends, from the providers that are saying you need to do XYZ and so we fear it, and we don't trust that our bodies can do it.

Ami: Lizzie has a little baby attached to her right now. Her little daughter was attached in a little carrier, so if you hear little baby noises, it's because there is one present in this conversation. So that leads me to wonder, even from my own experience, what do you say to women who feel they have failed at childbirth by having to have had an intervention? Like I, you know, I went in with the best intentions and I came out having I felt like I was like, Fuck, like I did not want this, I did something wrong, to have had a C-section and I'm curious, like what? What kind of conversations do you have with them then?

Lizzie: Yeah, those situations are so hard. A lot of times, it's not I mean, a hundred percent of the time, your body didn't fail you, a lot of times it's the system that failed you. When we talk about the cascade of interventions and when I hear some birth stories, it's like, wow, we really could have prevented that just by saying no the first time and letting our body kind of do what it's supposed to do and intuitively birth instead of laying down in a bed. There are so many things that can go wrong to work against the process in the hospital and then, of course, there's just there are real emergencies where thank goodness we have the interventions because a hundred years ago when we didn't have caesareans, actually, I think we maybe did have some like if you caesareans.

Ami: Yeah, but women died. Like that was a reality, right? Women died of childbirth. We don't hear that in North America, we still hear about in other places of the world, women are still dying, but in North America, women  don't die. It's not very common. It's very uncommon, I believe.

Lizzie: Yes, that's correct. We don't have like, because we have the medical interventions, we're able to prevent a lot of those things from happening. But the U.S. does have one of the highest, some of the highest rates of maternal morbidity and mortality compared to other developed countries. And the U.S. also has a high rate of more obstetricians practising than midwives compared to other countries that have more of an equal balance there. So, of course, you know, midwives tend to support physiological birth more because they can't just rush off and surgically, you know, do a surgical birth because they're not trained in that. Whereas an OB is and you know, I hate saying this because there are wonderful jobs that don't do this, but a lot of times it's all about convenience. For that provider and for that hospital.

Ami: Well, I would love to hear, I would love to know a little bit more about you. Like, what can you tell me a little bit about your experience with your birthing story that led you to be an advocate for unmedicated births? What was your journey to get you here?

Lizzie: Okay, so I have had three hospital births, unmedicated, and I don't know why, like I, I have a theory that your ideals around birth come from the wise women around you. So your mother, your sister, your aunt, the women in your family who have given birth already and so you learn about birth from them. If they haven't shared anything with you, then you're learning about it elsewhere in the movies and the media and that sort of thing. So I guess maybe it's from my mom who I learned it from, and she also had to unmedicated hospital births. So that was always the plan. It was always the plan to have an unmedicated birth and be in a hospital before I really got educated, and then of course, as I shared earlier, I wanted to do a home birth with my third. Probably largely in part due to being more educated, I became a doula in between my second and my third, so I knew a lot more about birth and with my second. So just briefly, my first two, my first in a hospital, I was pretty young. I think I was twenty-five and I walk in and my waters had broken and this was in a military hospital and the OB that was on shift.

Lizzie: When I got there, a very large man told me, "We need to get Pitocin, we need to get this baby out right away", and I knew enough to know what Pitocin was, and I didn't want to be induced and that I wanted unmedicated and then my body could do what it was meant to do. And I stood there, this is like burned in my memory forever, I stood there feeling so small, even though it was pretty like large. It was like forty-one and a half weeks pregnant but terrified by this very large man looking down at me saying, we need to get this baby out in 12 hours and I said, "Well, I would really like to try to see what if my body will go into labour because my water had broken and I hadn't really started with contractions at all yet", and he said, "Okay, fine. Well, we have twenty-four hours", and I tell this story a lot because like, what was the emergency? Why could we all of a sudden switch from 12 hours to twenty-four hours? And I think that's really just telling of the rush that the medicalized birth system kind of puts on birth. But anyway, there was a shift change.

Lizzie: I feel like it was pretty shortly after that like he wasn't there for that long, and a midwife came on shift and it was the midwife that I had selected to see for most of my appointments. So we had already talked about my birth plan and the rest of the birth went wonderfully. I asked for an epidural and she told me, "You are so close. You told me you didn't want one. We can definitely continue to do this unmedicated. These are other options you can have besides the epidural, but they're not effective. They're really going to make you feel loopy. You're still going to feel the contractions and we're almost done", and that really got me through to having my unmedicated birth and that birth, I actually did end up needing Pitocin because the baby was under stress and first-time moms are always longer and we didn't want to be too long. It ended up being a really great experience because of that midwife. I guarantee if I had that ob that whole time, it would not have gone the same way. So then fast forward five years to my second going to the hospital, another unmedicated birth. I'm not a doula yet, I haven't done that. I don't know that much more than what I knew with my first birth.

Lizzie: And this location just wasn't very supportive, so there are several things that now looking back, it was very coercive and they just were trying to speed things along. So when I got there, they told me to stay in the bed, which is like what I scream from the rooftops, like, don't get in the bed while you're in labour, it's just going to slow everything down. And they used a scare tactic to get me in the bed. Then there was a shift change in the other nurse said, "Oh, you're allowed to get out of the bed", then I got out of the bed but things were still going slow and they wanted me to do Pitocin, and I just when I think back, it's like it's so easily could have been that cascade of interventions that I warned women about. But thankfully I had said no to the Pitocin and the baby was born, no problem. And the provider I had also is someone I had never met, so that's another problem, it's like sometimes you're never meeting these people. Like even if I had talked to my provider about my birth plan, he wasn't even there for the birth. I had some on-call travelling OB, but, Um, I lost my train of thought.

Ami: You're talking, it's okay, you're talking about how your second birth actually went really smoothly and that you didn't have to have any

Lizzie: Perfect, thank you so much. So looking back, I see you know what I know now, all these red flags like the stay in bed and bringing in the Pitocin when my labour really was going normally, there was no reason to speed it up, it was taking its sweet time, as labour does. And then when my OB did come in, so he was there before we left, so he was able to come in. He checked on me and baby and he said, "Oh, I heard everything went like", and he snapped his fingers like, it just went perfect textbook birth. And when I think about that, I'm like, "Really? Was it? Then why was everyone trying to interrupt it? If it was going so perfectly?". And so that experience, while I did have a birth that was, you know, unmedicated and fine, it really made me question our birth system and then I became a doula. In between the second and third and so going into my third birth, I just knew everything and it was such a great birth experience and I did want that home birth and again, we couldn't afford it out of pocket.

Lizzie: And so I was determined, I'm going to have as close to home birth in the hospital as I can get. And I did. I did a lot of prep work in terms of preparing my body, preparing baby, preparing my uterus and my cervix and I made a plan to just there was a lot of meditation and visualization, and I got what I wanted and it just is mind-blowing to me and I don't know what was the thing that did it or if it's the culmination of all those things, but I had a really great birth experience in the hospital during a pandemic, absolutely no interruptions, interventions, and it was great. And after I had that experience, I was like, why couldn't I have had that with my other two? And so now that was kind of what propelled me to, I'd already become a doula and I was focusing on postpartum work and that kind of, you know, triggered me to switch gears and really teach women how to have positive and powerful birth experiences when they're in the hospital.

Ami: I so appreciate your stories. Thank you for sharing all that. I find birthing stories to be so fascinating. I love birth, when my friend has a birth, I'm just like, "If you need someone to be there like I'm having a baby that day".

Lizzie: Yeah, yeah. I know I was trying to make it short and sweet because I could really talk about birth all day. 

Ami: Yeah. But if you could like summarize, like what would you say has been lost from our birthing experience that you are so committed to bringing back?

Lizzie: I mean, it's absolutely like belief in the mother and belief in our ability to birth our babies knowing nothing like you really. I teach, I do birth education and you really don't, you really don't even need that. You don't need anything and that was a big reason why I was okay with having that hospital birth with the third because I knew that I knew I didn't need anything. It doesn't matter if I give birth here in my home or if I give birth in the four walls of the hospital. It's me. The power is one hundred percent in me and I just want women to know that, but they also need to know that if you step into that hospital and you don't make a plan to believe in yourself and to advocate for yourself and to have that knowledge, it's going to turn into that standard medicalized birth.

Ami: And so now, like you are working with women, you teach courses, it's something that you've committed your life to. So, what does living into your purpose look like for you? That's a big part of this conversation that I'm having with many, many times, with many different people from all around the world is around like, what has it taken? What is it that has taken for you to be able to be doing the work that you love to do that, I'm going to say, could be your purpose. I think I don't know, purpose is a trigger term for me sometimes because I feel like it's like a longing we always have, we never always achieve it. And for me, it's like whatever's the most sparkly at the time is what I'm really into, and it's changing constantly.

Lizzie: I was just going to say, I'm like, I don't really know what my purpose is because it has like just recently, you know, she is 10 months old. So 10 months ago, I had this like, oh, I need to switch gears and help women in this way and before that, it was I needed to help women in postpartum. And before that, I was an educator in public school snd I just feel like it just evolves. And of course, I mean, I'm a mom, so I always say, what is my purpose more of that motherhood? Or is it more of that thing that lights me up? Not that motherhood doesn't like me, but that thing outside of motherhood that lights me up. And that's probably the hardest thing is like balancing those two, because ultimately, I chose doula work to be more present with my children. I left teaching right after my second was born because I mean, I basically had a mental breakdown because of the stress and going back to work with a baby at home. It was so much and I just realized that women need so much support in this area and so then I become a doula so I can still help women. And that was my new purpose, right? But also so I could focus on this purpose of motherhood and it's so hard to pick because some days, some days, I'm like, I wish my kids were here so I could focus on doula-ing and birth education. And then I always feel bad that I think that, of course. So, yeah, I don't know if I answered your question. 

Ami: No, well, I was just wondering, like, what did it take for you to get to where you are right now? Like what? What was your journey to get there? And I and I like, I love what you're saying, that it's something that's always evolving and changing, and that's something that I really agree with you. That is that our purpose, like why we're here is just like at the moment, you know, like what is it that that's right now that we care about and it's important to us and that we can get excited about because, in two years, it's probably not going to be the same thing. And I find so many people don't get into action around the thing that they care about because they're wondering and worrying about five years from now, like, am I still going to care about it or am I going to really put all this effort into this? And like five years, I don't even care. It's like, No, you probably won't, you? Probably. But it will evolve and it will change, and it will be awesome, right?

Lizzie: And it'll be okay. And like, nothing has to be permanent. I don't think we were ever meant to live that way, and I think this is another societal thing like go to school, get a career or work there for 40 years, retire. And, you know, I mean, I spent a lot of time preparing to be a teacher, and then I did it for five years and now I left, and I don't plan on ever going back to that. And so just as you said, it's always changing and. I mean, that's a big fear to do to change, but our passions do change like we're people, we grow and we change and we learn and our life circumstances change and what's important to us changes.

Ami: And yeah, and also I would add to that that you going to school here for five years to be a teacher is not is still serving you now like it is still serving you right now in the work that you're doing. So it wasn't a waste. I think that is a really big thing is that we can't think of that time as wasted time because actually, you learned and you grew and you evolved and now you're using your teaching experience, actually teach people doing something you love to do.

Lizzie: Yeah. And you're absolutely right with that because even my husband so I just did a breastfeeding class for some of the moms in my course, and I'm a procrastinator. I procrastinate everything but I like, do really good work when I procrastinate, so I can't stop procrastinating. So I'm sitting on the couch and the kids are in bed and I'm finishing up my course content for this breastfeeding class that I'm doing. And he just looked at me and he's like, "How are you doing that? How are you in one night creating something that you're going to go teach a bunch of women for an hour? How are you doing that?". No, it's just what I do and it's absolutely I mean, if you talk to any teachers, they don't have time to plan for anything and they just kind of wing it and they make it work. And I absolutely learned a lot of things in my teaching career that I'm applying to now. I mean, I'm still teaching. It's just a different clientele.

Ami: And I also love how that journey is also a good example of disruption. How it's like we don't have to, you know, I think we're just taught from such a young age that we go to school and like the question we're asked so often as a child, like, what are you going to be when you grow up? What are you going to be when you grow up? What are you going to be when you grow up? And then finally, you grow up and you're like, I mean, my experience, like, I don't know what I'm going to be. I'm still, I'm 30, I still don't even know what I'm going to be, but I just think that's so amazing that you've kind of you walked that road. You did the things, you became a teacher. And now you're walking a different path and I just think it's a great example of what I'm talking about when I talk about disruption.

Lizzie: Absolutely.

Ami: So what, I love asking this question on the podcast, I think it's it's a very fascinating question, what was the message that you were receiving from your parents?

Lizzie: As a child?

Ami: Yeah. Like, what was your overall message that you got from them that you're kind of taking in now?

Lizzie: That's, I have never thought about that when I think back to like the type of personality that I have, which is kind of telling of like choosing to go into teaching too. I'm very like academic and I love learning, which is a big reason why I do what I do like I'm constantly learning and then I'm teaching it. And as a child, I remember being so hard on myself like I have to get an A in this class or it's like the end of the world and my parents never, ever put that on me and I don't know where it came from. And so I just I guess, my messaging, so, as I'm thinking about this in terms of me, like being a slight like perfectionist, type a personality and my parents having to like really like rein me in on that as a child and probably as a young adult and maybe even still telling me, like, you know, you don't have to do it all. This is like when my mom tells me you don't have to do it all. And really, it's always been like happiness, number one, like, do what makes you happy? And when I think to back to like being a child and I said already, like one of my big values is being present with my children and. I guess that was messaging from my mom then, too, because my mom was always there, you know, she worked, but she never worked full time. She was always home, she was always there. She prioritized her family and she definitely has always, you know, when I go to her being scared or unsure of things, it's like, you know, do what feels right to you, you know, follow your gut, do what makes you happy. And that sort of thing. And maybe that's why I'm so big on intuition now. I don't know. I never thought about that. All that unfolded just now, and

Ami: That was really beautiful, Lizzie. I love that a lot. I mean, it makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, I love that. Do what makes you happy? Listen to your gut.

Lizzie: And I guess I have always kind of been like that. I'm a little like, I'm not impulsive. Like, I think about things a lot but when I finally do pull the trigger on a somewhat larger decision, it's definitely an emotional reaction. It's like, it's me going with my gut, and I never really realize that right now, and that's probably the messaging that I got from my parents.

Ami: It's really great. Thank you. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, I'm just kind of thinking about kind of where you are right now, and I also just like, I just keep thinking about all these great examples of how what you're doing right now is a great example of disruption around like, you're a mom with four children and you are an entrepreneur who has started a successful business teaching other women how to come home themselves to be able to listen to their intuition. These are my words, not yours, to be able to, like, listen to their intuition and to be able to advocate for themselves around something that is like a very sacred experience. And I think that that is just such a beautiful example because my experience when I first had children is that I was a big victim to my children like I was like my children and I was stopping me from doing the things I want to do. And I love how you're kind of turning that around. You're like, "No, no, I'm doing this podcast right now with the baby strapped to my body, so this is an example of how I can do both and that I'm not necessarily being a victim to my circumstances, which are having to be a mother of four children and still doing the work that lights you up", and I just really want to acknowledge you for that and being a great stand for other women as an example of like what we are actually capable of doing.

Lizzie: Absolutely. And I mean, to be honest with you, I definitely felt like a victim too, you know, of course, that's totally normal. It's like, you know, in your good days, you're like this, like, you described me and we can do both. And it doesn't have to be perfect. And it's okay that my kids are watching cartoons right now because after this, you know, we're going to do our home school, we're going to go outside whatever, and that's on a good day. And then there are, of course, you know, times where I second guess what I'm supposed to be doing. I definitely have the thought. I can't be an entrepreneur because it's too much like I can't do the business how I want to do it because. I'm not doing the motherhood, how I want to do it, and it's just those are just, you know, the imbalanced days and it's not, it's a lie. You know, that's not the truth. Obviously, just like you said, I am doing both. And it's, you know, you're doing it right now. So you shouldn't say you can't do it because it's happening, which is actually what I tell moms and birth. When they say they can't do it, you're doing it right now. You're doing it perfectly successfully. You can do it. It's a lie that you can't.

Ami: I love that. Thank you so much for that. Is there anything else you'd like to add to the conversation before we start wrapping up and closing out?

Lizzie: I don't know, I just want to thank you. I think this has just been such a fun conversation and you've actually enlightened me to a lot of things about myself that I hadn't really thought of in terms of that, like being a disrupter and that sort of thing. So thank you, I can't wait to go binge your podcast now.

Ami: Well, thank you, Lizzie. It's been such an honour to talk to you, and I really appreciate the work that you're doing in the world and the commitment that you're taking in the stand that you're taking for, for women and for our children too.

Lizzie: Absolutely, thank you for letting me share my story, too.

Ami: You're welcome. Have a wonderful day, Lizzie.

Lizzie: Bye.