Disruptions With Purpose

On Humour, Making Money, Sex Work and Strap-Ons With Jacq Frances

June 07, 2021 Jacq Frances Season 1 Episode 8
Disruptions With Purpose
On Humour, Making Money, Sex Work and Strap-Ons With Jacq Frances
Show Notes Transcript

In this conversation, we speak with striper, artist, comedian and Instagram influencer, Jacq Frances. We have a hilarious and beautiful conversation about Jacq’s fascinating journey to becoming a striper and transitioning that gift into becoming an artist. Jacq’s Instagram account, @jacqthestripper, has been causing a huge disruption by giving voice to the female body and permission for women to take back ownership of our bodies.  Overall, this is a conversation about the role play, humour, and creativity have in being an ally in our pursuits to creating a more purposeful life. 

 “I still wanted to be a traveller, just not a poor one anymore. So I shaved my legs and bush, showed up to the first Google search result that came up for ‘gentlemen’s club Sydney,’ got naked for this old fat guy named Jim and, to my surprise, I liked it. A lot.” -Jacq from The Beaver Show

In this episode we talk about:

  • The mindset of making money
  • Choosing how we view ourselves through how we dress each day
  • The powerful messages our parents give us as children guide us through our adult years
  • Anxiety and the role it has in how we play in the world
  • Doing nothing and the power that has to have the miraculous manifest itself. 
  • Allowing inspiration to arrive to be more creative and daring. 
  • Changing the narrative and cultural view of sex workers

Check out our past conversation with Jacq’s sister Karry On Death and Dying

If you’re interested in Uncovering your blind spots and step into your full potential and discover what you want your life to look like and take the steps and build the muscle to make it happen or  to get into Action to fully play in life contact me at ami@amidehne.com to chat about 1:1 coaching.

I want to invite you to help contribute to this podcast by submitting a suggestion for a Disruptor your know who would be a great guest on the Disruptions With Purpose podcast.  All you have to do is go here and submit a suggestion (https://forms.gle/vonkDn8bCmeK2zRL6)


  • Striptastic! A celebration of dope-ass cunts who like money by Jacqueline Frances.  STRIPTASTIC! is a coffee-table book of illustrations, interviews, and data collected from a survey conducted with nearly 300 strippers from around the world. If you're looking for a redemption narrative about a woman who feels ashamed about her body and the choices she's made, look elsewhere STRIPTASTIC! is a celebration of dope-ass c*nts who like money. 
  • The Beaver Show - by Jacqueline Frances.  Stripping is about feeling powerful, sexy, and endlessly curious about how far a dude’s kinks will go (‘show me your armpits’) and how much he is willing to pay for them ($1200).
    And the money’s sexy.
  • Lovers Store - Your Place For Pleasure. 

About Jacq:

Jacq Frances is a multidisciplinary sex symbol and aspiring sugar daddy. She makes art, money and a joke out of everything. You may know her on the internet as @jacqthestripper. 

Ami: I would love to know your story. Like what is your story that led you to where you are today? And you can start from like little baby Jackie hanging out with

Jacq: Or little baby Jackie. Yeah, Where does I start. It starts everywhere. I mean, everything I've ever done has led to this moment. So. I've always been really creative and artistic and curious, and my mom always told stories of traveling and traveling by herself, so I set out to travel by myself from a pretty young age. I was 19 when I took my first trip by myself. I went to Costa Rica for a month and hitchhiked and did a bunch of things that probably would be horrified if I had a daughter to know that she was doing. And I definitely freaked out. But I've always just been thirsty for adventure and for a story. And I come from a family of storytellers also. And I didn't really consciously know that I wanted to be a storyteller or anything over the University of Sydney Russian literature and. I had a regular job at a university because I thought I was supposed to have a regular job like being paid by somebody else. Turns out I hate that my very first job, I was trying to get into advertising, but So, I got a job in May 2009, which was almost impossible to get a job because nobody could get a job in May 2009. But I did because I can get money from anywhere. I didn't know this at the time. I've just always been very enterprising, very charismatic, very good at getting people to pay me So.

Jacq: I took this job because I thought I was going to be a copywriter and like wear cool outfits and an ad agency office, but my job ended up being, too. Do to do research market research on. Bathroom stalls and office towers to see where there was potential for advertisements when people were taking a shit because this was pre iPhone So remember, we used to sit in the toilet and the door. You close the door in the toilet stall. There was an ad, didn't work because everyone looks at their phone. But back in the day, you had an opportunity to put an ad. So I had to go into office, towers, men and women's bathrooms all across Montreal to take photographs of bathroom stalls. And I did that for two months. And I was look, you know what? This isn't for me. This is what I don't like this this isn't what I want to be doing, like hanging out in the shitter. So I just went traveling and I went to Southeast Asia for a while and I got work on Craigslist as a nightclub entertainer. And I just realized then that I was making a living as an entertainer, which was always my dream. But I always thought that dream was impossible. I always thought, like wanting to be an actress or an entertainer or a dancer was like impossible, because when you do ballet, when you're a kid, you're kind of like you're never skinny enough, you're never good enough, you're never disciplined enough.

Jacq: And and I always felt like that's how show business was, that I would just never be good enough. And so I never really considered it as something that I could do. But then it just ended up kind of happening in this in this totally organic way of me, like needing to go out and get money and having way more fun when there's costumes and people involved. Like everything to me is a performance. Whatever job of doing it is like there's a costume, there is an audience, whether it's like working in advertising. I imagined the costume part of it So working at this nightclub. And then I got in this crash a scooter. I got in a very typical tourist accident in Thailand where I went sliding across the pavement and I was like, OK, I guess I got to leave Thailand now because I am on crutches and it's really hard to navigate Thailand on crutches. So I moved to Australia because it was not that far away and I knew it was more like a better place for me to recover. And I now and I got a working visa as a Canadian and that's how I became a stripper. I didn't want to become I always wanted to become a stripper, but I the stigma was too real.

Jacq: I was like, I can't be a stripper. Everyone I know is going to find out. And that's going to be weird. But now everybody knows. But it's been it's been a journey to get here. But, yeah, I've just decided that I was going to become a stripper one day when I was totally out of money and I was so tired of eating oatmeal, still can't eat oatmeal. And I just said, fuck it, I'm going to be a stripper. And I never looked back. It was amazing. So I was a stripper for ten years and stripping got me into comedy because I met a comedian during the day shift and he showed me what it was like to be a comedian. I was like, you guys are crazy, I want to do this. And then I started making comics about my experiences and sharing them on Instagram, which led to my career as a visual artist. I'm a painter and acting because stripping is acting and. And I'm doing that's what I'm doing now. I think that's how I would distil where I'm at now. So that is that is the abridged version of my journey. And it's always changing. And I have no idea what's going to happen next. I have no expectations. That's what I learned. Just to have no expectations that everything's a wonderful surprise.

Ami: There's so many things I want to ask you about right now, you know, I just feel that the whole time, like holding in the laughter, your presence just is such a joy. Like you're there's just like a lightness and just a fun like hilariousness to you. And I it just it's so fun to talk to you. Jack, what is it that your parents were saying to you when you were a kid? Like, what was the message?

Jacq: Have fun. 

Ami: Have fun. 

Jacq: My mom always said, have fun. My mom never I don't think one said be careful. But you know who else said be careful to me? Literally, every single person on the planet, when I was about to do something, we got to stop telling women to be careful. I think we should start telling women and young girls to have fun and telling boys to be careful what a boy goes out. I mean, not that like gender is a social construct, but my mom always just said, have fun. She said, don't look back. Have fun. That was always what she was saying. And she was very supportive of, like, don't just do whatever you want. She always said, the world is your oyster. I definitely like this confidence that I have and this levity is definitely the credit of a very supportive mother

Ami: Well we know your sister and you guys both have this level of confidence in you that I can really relate to. I was raised by a mother who also never told me to be careful. I was never told to be careful either as a child. And I was not looking back. I'm so grateful for that. That has been such a phenomenal gift of of confidence and being able to go out into the world and not being afraid of the world

Jacq: The world is going to wreck you up, but you'll learn. Everyone learns. But being cautious and anticipating tragedy or anticipating negative vibes is not is never how I go about my day. And if I do have moments like that and it does creep up, that's all that I'm learning that that's called anxiety. And I really I think that anxiety I was learning this recently, I was like anxiety and curiosity are just two sides of the same coin or anxiety and excitement. You know, it's like what? Because I really, truly believe that it's all for the story and your life is more interesting, the more challenging it is, the more roadblocks that you have to encounter. And and when you do it for the story, instead of doing it for the success, I think it kind of changes the attitude of how you go through it. And then, of course, the story that you tell, if you're just trying to win, that's fine. But like, I don't know. I don't know. And really, I'm not really up to win anything and I don't play games. I don't even know where I'm going with this. But no, it's like. Especially now that I live in the States and I've been here for 10 years, like the determination to win and to be the absolute best is is is so pervasive and like it has this whole scarcity mentality about it. The cruelty one. And I always tell people know how to be the first. You don't have to be the best. You just have to be the most memorable. Yeah, that's it.

Ami: And so what is it that your up to?

Jacq: Now I'm up to

Ami: Like, what is it that you're committed to, like there's like something that you're committed to, but that my experience of following your Instagram and really having this, I just love your boldness. It is unbelievably fresh and reassuring as a woman. And I'm so here's what is it that you're committed to disrupting in our cultural narrative?

Jacq: I am committed more fun in twenty twenty-one is my mantra. And my other determination for twenty twenty-one, which is very challenging for me, but is is I am challenging myself to do as little as possible and to see what happens because I am very much of a doer and very ambitious. I am always doing the most. And I'm very busy and I have so many interests and so many hobbies and so many dreams and I have so many ideas and I want to execute them all, but with having all these ideas and wanting to execute them all, I sometimes get into this narrative of like, oh, you're not doing enough. And that's not enough narrative. So I'm trying to peel away from that. And I'm trying to just have a really good time because I worked when covid hit, I was very worried about money as a lot of us were. So I, I just went into like overdrive with work and productivity to make sure that I was financially secure enough and I worked my ass off. I'm proud of it. I did. I did. All right. But I'm like, for what? For what? Like, why did I do all that? So now I'm trying to change my tune, I'm trying to see what what happens when you don't try so hard to do everything and just see what what comes to me. I've planted a lot of seeds, have been building this character, this business, this Instagram, whatever you want to call it for a long time. So I'm just sort of like watching my seeds around me sprout and trying to enjoy my downtime. More like now for the So, the new lunar cycle started, what, on Tuesday? Did you work a lot with the moon? I love today Jupiter enters Pisces, which is all of my Jupiter, Jupiter is and Pisces.

Jacq: So I'm really like I'm trying to create more unstructured time for myself and just to see what happens, like I'm looking right now, I'm very determined to like, let inspiration come to me because whatever I do next is going to be cool, but I, I need more inspiration that is not found on my computer screen just so. Yeah. So that's what I'm doing. I'm trying to do less and I'm launching House of Jack, my new art experiment, which is a sliding scale art experience. It's like a gallery, it's whatever I want it to be. But so far I'm going to be selling my original painting. I'll be selling prints as well. But I want to sell my art and trying to give you 50 percent of your money to a gallery doesn't really seem that appealing. And also like these formal spaces where people are supposed to, like, sell their books, sell their art. I have never really fit into those spaces. I've just been met with a lot of no's and radio silence so I don't really bother, but I'm going to do a sliding scale art gallery. So basically all this the prices on my website. But if people really want the piece and it connects to them and it's not quite in the budget, I want to hear from these people and I want to settle on a price that works for both of us so that I feel that I'm selling the art for what I what I feel I deserve for, but also that the person can walk away with it without breaking the bank.

Ami: So I love what you said, that it's an experiment in art, commerce, community and adventure. Yet like everything else that you do. Yes. Tell me more about that. Tell me that.

Jacq: So, OK, so here's the truth. What I do for money is always changing. I can get money anywhere. I've always known this about myself, but there's nothing more tragic for me personally is if I know exactly where my money is coming from for forever. Like I really like new challenges, new opportunities, new strategies, new experiences. And that's where I get a lot of inspiration and excitement. My creativity is thrives on on things that I haven't done before, just winging it and making a ton of mistakes and making art out of it and learning things So. I will do anything like I also like I'm totally open to commissions. I get a mural last year that was so incredible. This guy, Bob, this wonderful guy, Bob, reached out. It's his wife, Lisa's birthday. He wanted me to paint a mural for a birthday. I never painted a mural. He trusted me to paint it. It was extraordinary. I had an incredible time. I love it when people hit me up and like, want to pay me to do random things. And this is like very much from, like sex work. People show up and they're like, can you do this? And you're like, yeah, I could do this. Sure. Or like, that's not quite in my wheelhouse. But please let me introduce you to my friend Angela. She's totally going to do that for you. It's it's very much everything is a negotiation. Everything is connecting with someone and seeing if you vibe and seeing if that interaction is going to work and money can change hands. And that's great. I like money. It's validating. I don't like doing things like for free. I, I don't feel appreciated. It doesn't feel right when I do things for free unless like you are my family or like a really chosen family. But I think that

Ami: If I'm energetic, it sounds to me like it's like there's a value on the energetic exchange that goes into you giving of of yourself to receive something in return.

Jacq: Yeah. And I'm open to what that could be. It doesn't have to be cash, although cash is my favorite. I'm very curious about trade. I haven't done a lot of trade, but this is what I'm very curious as to what could come of this. So if you're listening to this right now, I'm very interested in trade. So if there's something that you would like for me and you want to offer me something in return, I would love to hear from you because everybody has so many gifts and talents to share and resources and resources look different to different people. And we are all rich. You know, we are all so abundant with so many different things and not necessarily cash on. All of us have a lot of cash flow, but that's fine. I think we all have so much to offer each other. And I'm so curious about like what that look like.

Ami: I'm curious from you, because something that I've been thinking about a lot, and especially in exploring these conversations where I'm really asking people to step outside of what we're told we're supposed to do and really think about what it is that is calling us, what is it that we friggin care about so much that we're willing to step off the highway and go down the country roads for? And the thing that keeps coming to me is this notion of privilege, like this idea that that that my privilege has allowed me to even think about the fact that I can leave the highway and have a go have have the opportunity to be like, you know, I don't really want to do that. So I'm going to try something different. I'm curious for you if that something that you think about or how does that play into what you're doing and how you operate? 

Jacq: I think I'm very privileged to radiate positivity, which I do credit to a really supportive parent growing up, because I meet a lot of people who are plagued with negative self talk. And that is that mentality is exactly what's going to hold you back and slow you down and not let you think that you can get off the highway. So I think I have an outlook that was fostered by the support of pretty secure environment as a kid, that that is privilege. Yeah. And I don't I I never really saw it that way until I have met so many incredible people who everyone has a different story but not everyone was able to grow up like that. It's a privilege to think that you can do anything. It's a privilege to to be secure and to have a secure environment growing up in order to have a parent that that also that feels that way or came to that on their own journey.

Ami: Hmm, yeah, I really agree with that. I yeah, I think about myself as having, like all of the things I was born into, allowing me to be able to get where I am right now. And, yeah, it's it's and I will I will say it's a conversation for me that makes me uncomfortable, Jack. Like, I have like had to be with the uncomfortable feeling that come up when people, you know, ask me what a sort of privilege you got. I really wanted to put my head in the sand and not pretend they don't talk about this.

Jacq: But I'm just interested of growth happen.

Ami: Exactly. I'm just willing to change my commitment. And I'm like, I'm willing to be uncomfortable. I'm I'm willing to be comfortable with becoming uncomfortable. Yeah. You know, to want to turn over the unturn stones, to be able to see parts of myself that are just like haven't been aware of.

Jacq: Yeah, I'm receiving information that you're like. I don't know, I think there's this really kind of this idea of the meritocracy and that's how we all made it, which is total bullshit. It's like this false narrative that we all worked really hard to get to where we are. And that's just like white people talking to other white people. It's pretty embarrassing. Yeah, we got to do better in that capacity.

Ami: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, thanks for explaining that with me for a little bit. I'm I'm curious from like what what is the role of vulnerability. How does it play in you being a disruptor and having fun for not asking for permission for going out on Instagram with a strap-on. Like how like what is the role of vulnerabilty have in all of this for you?

Jacq: I mean, look, I'm an entertainer, I love attention, you can't put on a boring show, so you want to put on a good show you have to you have to go out there and do some things that are a little bit wild. You know, it's I've always loved putting on a show and just like I'm smiling so big about just like making people be, like, not be able to look away. And that's just doing anything with conviction and wearing the strap-on. This was this was an ad this was an ad that I developed.  Lovers Stories reached out to me and wanted to do an ad and they said, take a sex toy. And I was like, I'm gonna wear a strap on. And that's how it developed. And I had never I don't I didn't have my own strap on and I always wanted one and this opportunity came up and because I was like at the end of last year, I was like, I want more strap on in my life. Like, I just like because I really think that, like, I was talking to my friend Valerie, something who's also a disruptive entrepreneur, and she was getting really frustrated that it's a big dick contest out there. Like, I hate how this whole industry is like a big dick competition. And I'm like, well, then put on your dick, go and get a dick. Anybody can go and buy a dick and go put one up and sling your dick around.

Jacq: And it was a really good time. I think it is a big dick competition. But I think what we're forgetting is the dicks aren't special. Anybody could go to the store and buy one. And you can choose to have the privilege to choose it also, if you already if you are a dick-haver already biologically, that's fine, too. You can also go by a different day and put it on over your current dick. Sparkly Dick. Small dick. There is probably a double dick out there. There's so many different dicks you can have and I don't know, it's just a music to me. I love. Yeah, I just love making fun videos with my friends, fun, slutty videos. I was always the one at the party who's like, OK, bend over more. OK, I'll look back at me like I was always the one making everybody take the straps of themselves. And everybody was like, don't make me do it. But you want that girl at the party who's like too keen because then you have the great photo to remember it. You need someone to push the envelope a little bit to inspire you to get out of your comfort zone a little bit, because we're doing it for the story. We're doing it for the picture. We're doing it for Instagram and whatever, you know. But then you always have a good laugh and a good memory. So I don't know what was the question? How am I a disruptor?

Ami: Oh, yes. But also it

Jacq: Comes back to like, I'll do anything, not anything. What I will do for money is always changing. And whatever opportunities come to me, I'm like, well, how could this be fun and interesting? And I really was very like, everything is kind of like selfishly motivated. Like I wanted to strap on in my life. I wrote in my journal that I wanted more strap ons in my life. And then this opportunity came up and I and I chose to strap on. I could have chosen a different kind of sex toy, but I wanted to strap on and. You know, you have to you have to make money doing something for Instagram, you have to be clever about it, so I couldn't I wanted to make sure it wasn't like soliciting sexual activity, so I really want the ad that I made I really wanted to make sure it was just about being comfortable in a in a sexualized environment, but wearing something that may be used at some point for sex or maybe not. Maybe you just want to put your dick on so that you can ask for a raise. When you're on Zoom It's only this part of your face, right? It's your shoulders. You could put your dick on and then get on to zoom and do like, "hey, I deserve a 20 percent raise because I made a 20 percent increase in profit in this company and Jared didn't do anything and Jared's already making more money than me because there's a wage gap". Sometimes you have to put a dick on to be able to say those things.

Ami: Its so clear that what you're disrupting are the things that we take so seriously that we take ourselves so seriously, we take sex so seriously, we take so many of these things so damn seriously.

Jacq: It's not that deep, guys. Yeah, it's it can be, but it's really it's going to be hard to I think laughter is really healing because I am also speaking to a huge about a huge community of sex workers who like sex work is not easy and the circumstances under which sex workers have to work or or the circumstances in society that push people to to end up doing sex work is not great. The circumstances kind of suck and it's really challenging. And everybody always wants to talk about the sad whore, everything. Right. And like what what trauma has befallen you to choose this life? But I don't know. I think capitalism in general is pretty traumatic for everyone. And I don't really want to dwell on the trauma. I mean, the trauma is there. I think I would rather talk about trauma in a past tense. I can't talk about the stuff I'm going through right now, but I can talk about things that I have worked through. And I have a gift for talking about things with joy and levity. So that's why. That's why I think I'm really impactful in this really unique way, is that I can make people laugh about tough stuff. And I'm so proud of that, because that's a gift, that's a gift that I have and. And and sometimes it feels trivial, but I know in my heart that it's not I know it's my purpose. Mm hmm. And I think, like, I am frivolous and important.

Jacq: And I want everyone to feel like they are frivolous and important. Hmm. Yeah.

Ami: Thanks for saying that.

Jacq: Yeah. I love your earrings. They're frivolous and important.

Ami: They are. Thank you. I put them on for you! 

Jacq: That's one of the things that I love about being outlandish and wearing funny outfits. Because whenever I do something, people tell me that they got dressed for like for me or whatever, like for a show. Everyone looks amazing and a little bit ridiculous. And they say they like the dress for this event. But it's like it just because we create an environment that really, like, nurtured you being creative in your own wacky way and you showed up. And I want to always create more spaces like that where everybody can feel like they can play and be weird and like where the weird outfit that they have in their closet, but they don't know when they can wear it. I want to create a space where, like, you can come and show up and wear that. Also will get silly party girl inside of us.

Jacq: And I'm like, do we do?

Jacq: And like, everybody has some sort of, ridiculous alter ego. And I just want I want you to, like, play with her more often or whatever, you know?

Ami: Well, the thing that we were talking about when we were getting this conversation set up and making sure our microphones were working was that we were talking about how we're all dressed in character anyway. Like, every day we wake up, we are whether or not we think we're dressing normally, like how we normally dress. I'm using air quotes here like we're still a characters and we're still dressing an identity. So choose the identity. Choose a different one if it's not working for you or you want to try on something else, just put on the strap on,

Jacq: Put on your dick,

Ami: Put on your dick.

Jacq: Put on your dick at there are so many and it can always change. I think that in my experience, my sexual identity is always changing. And my gender like what interests me as an artist. I'm like I'm learning like the word for this is a rebranding. I'm like, oh, you're rebranding. I'm like, oh God. I hate when everything is like a marketing term, but it is I we're constantly rebranding if you're selling yourself, which I am, I do sell myself, but I'm going to rebrand right now. But it's not the sort of like harsh, dramatic shift in tone of like, that was me yesterday. This is me today. It's like I have this different things interest me at different times. And and sometimes things serve me and sometimes things don't. But I really enjoy the cyclical nature of alter egos and character and fashion and what you're into and then passing it on when it's when you're done with it. I have a younger friend who I give all of my, like, clothes to, and I I'm so much faster to let go of these items that I have held dear to me and felt really precious about.

Jacq: And I never used to think I would ever give it away because I'm like, it's part of my archive, but like it it gives me such a thrill to pass on these precious pieces to somebody I know who's going to enjoy them and wear them. And so it's my friend Valitina. She's also a visual artist and a musician. She's a sex worker. She's got such wild style. And I love like seeing and I have one of my friends and she gives all of me she gives me all of her old clothes. So this whole cycle of like of our alter egos and creative expressions and like one friend's a little bit older, one's a little bit younger, and just watching them thrive and express themselves without having to go shopping because shopping is fun, but shopping is expensive. It's way more fun to shop in your friend's closet. And just just that energy circulating is so exciting. And and also seeing your creativity live on other people

Jacq: Is really cool.

Ami: Yeah, I love that. I love that shift in thinking.

Jacq: Yeah. Because I used to, it's funny because I'm younger. Very used to it. So we used my mom used to buy us matching outfits. Right. But Kerry would just go through the outfit and outgrow it and then I had to wear her hand-me-down. So I always had to wear like an extra two or three years of the outfit, which frustrated me so much. It's like, why does Karry get to move on and wear like other cool stuff. And then I have to wear all of the hand-me-downs, which made me very into fashion later in life because I felt restricted by that and now I like style Kerry because Kerry never has to think about it she just always gets the new stuff. And so now I give Karry things down. But it's funny, like what you don't have as a kid, like I really didn't have I hated thrifting. I thought thrifting was gross. Other people's clothes are gross like I was. I was very consumer-driven. Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen were my favorite people ever, and they were always so fashionable and chic and new. And in that mall culture of being a tween was so pervasive. And I just I just wanted to be trendy all the time without really thinking of what I actually liked or wanted. And then I became like a teenager and started to be more creative with it, but. Yeah, it's amazing how when we're young, what we think of like how we how we express ourselves and what we're looking at as inspiration and when the culture is and then we become an adult you realize you have my agency.

Ami: Yeah, if you're able to bust a thing to you know, I feel like so many times as adults, we don't actually feel like we have an agency like so many of us are still stuck in, like our teenage times, acting like a.. You know, like we're showing up as an adult, but still operating from our teenage hood.

Jacq: Yeah, whatever. I go home, that happens to me.  I but I moved, I think. I don't know, I guess like. Yeah, I mean, in New York, none of us. None of us, not one of us, but most of us did grow up here. So when you leave home, I've noticed a difference and the freedom to kind of try out new things. But when I go back home, I totally revert to like teenage Jackie. And I hate being called Jackie. Now, I don't even let people call me that except for my sister. But I got to be sure. I know she of course, she refers to me that way. She's allowed to if you're listening and to call for that. But it's funny how like living like a teenager, like we're all still that kid inside. Whatever happened when you were a teenager needs to heal.

Jacq: Absolutely. Yeah. So before we wrap up, I'm just curious from you for you look, what is your biggest barrier to yourself living into the things that light you up?

Jacq: My biggest barrier to myself is. You know what I think it is, I think it's time back to like when I was a teenager, this this idea of commercial success, like looking up to Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen, my idols, as a child and thinking that the only idea of success was a very commercial version of success. Like I'm currently I'm working I'm getting work as an actress and I'm pursuing acting more seriously. And I have these kind of superficial or very commercial ideas of what a successful actress looks like and when really it's like, well, what do you want to do? Do you want to perform? Do you want to act or do you want to be a commercial actress? I really I get tripped up on the journey like I always trying to tell myself and I I make art about this is the journey. We are in it right now. And I have to always remind myself that I wake up every day and do whatever I want for the most part, and that is success. That is how they made it in my terms. That is my opinion of like living the good life is that I do whatever I want. I work for myself. I don't I haven't set an alarm clock and like ten years like this is my idea of success. And I have to remember that because sometimes I trip up on my biggest pipe dreams and that my biggest pipe dream, the biggest career dream that I have is the one that happens next, that have to happen next. I trip up on that. I think that I have to kind of go zero to 90. I forgot all the steps in between are really important and also really fun. And so I think I just have to be more compassionate with myself and practice more gratitude.

Ami: Yeah, the thing I love what you're saying, though, is like how intentional you have made your life. Like, your life is very intentional, but you think you

Jacq: Want to do it? I don't want to do. I guess that's a way of saying I do not like working for other people. Mm hmm. I guess it it doesn't it doesn't suit me. I mean, I don't do good work. I've been fired from every job where I've had to work from other people. It's not like it wasn't like a big act of resistance. It was like they fired me. I'm not good at it. So you just have to be creative with how you how you do choose to, like, sustain on this planet. Hmm. Yeah.

Ami: So anything else to add to the conversation or say before we wrap up?

Jacq: I am so excited to be here and to make art every day and to laugh. And I just want to thank you for creating this space. And if you're listening, I hope you make time to do nothing. Like I said, an hour where you do nothing. And then in that hour, something like maybe you decide to do something now, like, I think unstructured time is really precious. And that's what I'm exploring right now. And I just I don't know. I hope that for everyone else that time and and play or maybe nap, we probably need a nap.

Ami: It makes me think about this time. Thank you for the beautiful acknowledgement. I appreciate that. And it's a joy to have you here. And I just want to tell you a little quick story, but it makes me think about this time I was in Mexico. It was just my girlfriend. And we don't we always do this like really adventurous trips. So it was like an off-the-beaten-track little place in Mexico. It's like fifteen boats to get to. And anyway, so we're there and there was a tarot card reader that was that had put a sign up and so we decided to go get a tarot card reading done. And and for me, my journey in these past five, ten years, all the time has been like, what am I here to do? You know, we were speaking about this a little bit in our emails. Like, I hate when people ask me, like, what is it that you do for work? I'm like, oh, it's not a clear cut. Answers like whatever sparkly in the moment, like whatever is lovely and has my attention is what I'm doing for work.

Jacq: And sometimes that's a great answer.

Ami: Yeah. Sometimes that means there's a million things that I'm doing at once. Like my income is incredibly diversified, which I'm quite proud of, is quite creative and quite, quite right now. Just like I was curious from this, from this tarot card reader, like, yeah. What is it like? Do you have any clarity on like what like I'm here to do. And she took the card and she was like very like she read them and she looked at me and she's like, you have to be patient and you have to be the best, most amazing patient person. You have to do nothing. And I was like, no, no, no. That is not the answer that I can be with right now. I can not do nothing. And it has been a beautiful journey of having to be really incredibly patient. And in that time, I have got I've been able to listen to the silent whispers that you don't hear very often that aren't very loud. But I have listened to them coming way more clear. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing now. I'm much there being with people, creating, belonging, disrupting shit that's stopping us from our meaning and purpose. So anyway, I just wanted to tell that thing around, like go into the old be patient, go be willing to like, do nothing.

Jacq: Tarot is magical. I've been reading Tarot for myself for ten years. It's it's gives me so much perspective. I love that. I love it. That's what she told you, exactly what you needed to hear and what you didn't want to hear.

Ami: I fucking hated it so much. 

Jacq: So that's what Tarot does. It gives you a little a loving bitch slap from the here, honey.

Ami: Well, thanks, Jacq, so much for your willingness and just for your lightness and your hilarity. I just so appreciate it.

Jacq: I will never give up thinking that. Nice to chat. Yeah.